Moral Question for the Day:
Is telling lies or manipulating others always wrong?
My take on it: It depends on which culture you come from.
My father is one of those "The coffee must be black, the westerns and Sam Elliot rock my world, and those who are dishonest are low-lifes" types. My family is pretty conservative (not religious, just conservative). Those wearing white hats, who stand up for what is right, speak their minds, and have empty pockets as a result are to be admired. Those who aren't straightforward, honest, or who manipulate, and jingle-jangle-jingle when they walk (probably all the coins in their pockets?) are going to wind up face down in the mud in the end of the mental-movie, and it serves em' right!
My husband and brother-in-law are both from India (Rajasthan and Punjab, respectively). Having grown up in a culture with major social pressure to appease others (who can be exceedingly pushy and persistent in getting what they want, right or wrong) and to protect one's social image (as it affects one's family), they view manipulation and lying much as a businessman would; it is a necessity for one's survival. This is perhaps *one* of the reasons we see so many Indians come to America with nothing and skyrocket towards success where Americans who have lived here for a lifetime often fail miserably. It is also the cause of the self-perpetuating corruption throughout all levels of Indian government (again, hearing this from Indian friends). If you don't slide some cash to the government employee's hand in India, then good luck to you getting your document processed!
Indians tend to figure people and systems out and do what they have to do to survive and to succeed. It is better, in Indian culture, for example, to lie to someone who keeps asking to borrow money they never pay back then to tell them straight that they are undependable and you're not going to loan them anymore money. In Indian culture, that person may retaliate if you are assertive about their behavior. They may say things to the vast network of people that make up your community which damage your reputation (be they true or falsified). The consequences could be severe, and either way even an obviously untrue rumor will likely follow you forever in the Indian community (and thus, your family).
We Americans have the general "luxury" of being honest, in my view. It is not only acceptable, but a virtue, to be honest and assertive here. With our cultural structure being based on independence, the consequences are typically not as dire for telling someone off or losing out on business (not progressing as quickly up the financial ladder) as in Indian culture. While the individual may think you're a jerk, they are not likely to cause others to shun you or your family when they complain, or even tell false rumors about you. In India things like this can affect the quality of person your brother can marry, who will hire you for a job, or your parents getting a loan to start a business (not that the credit system is the same in India as America, but I digress).
In our household, my husband will tell little white lies (typically when it comes to finances) such as "Yes, I ordered that [item]" or "We only have this much in that account". While it drives me crazy when he lies to me, I appreciate that he does not open his mouth and let honesty roll on out when dealing with business situations. I appreciate it, when it is needed, that he works the system (such as signing up as a new customer to get a deal on cable, for example) to save us money (I think cable is a huge rip-off anyway, so I'm not morally opposed to it). So I suppose it's a double-edged sword. I have learned also, to keep my mouth shut rather than tell someone my honest opinion when my honest opinion may not be appreciated.
Again, this view I have developed is through my experiences with Indian culture and through the discussions I have had with Indian friends and family members. I have met at least one exceedingly honest East Indian, so I want to emphasize I am speaking about generalities - as that's what "culture" is - a general set of rules and norms a group of people live by. If my post offends you, I apologize, but you are welcome to respond - I just request that you keep it civil, focus on culture *not* religion (it is off-topic for this post), and keep an open mind so responders can feel free to voice their opinion without fear of judgement.
Those of you who have experience with Indian and/or American cultures, what are your thoughts?
Tuesday, September 13, 2011
Monday, September 12, 2011
Learning Hindi - Preparing to Meet My In-laws
I have yet to meet my in-laws. They disapproved of our marriage and wouldn't talk to my husband for quite some time, before our son was born. The birth of our son has changed everything, but they worry about how their community will react and have my husband's younger brother yet to be married off...so I sit waiting until this occurs, and my husband's parents sit pining away for their grandson, who they dearly want to hold in their arms (but feel they have no choice but to wait to meet for now)...
In the meanwhile, I am preparing for the day I will travel to India to stay with my husband's parents for a while and give them precious time to get to know their grandson. I am learning Hindi.
I tried the "cheap" way, buying a book and CD's at the local bookstore and using the internet. The book failed horribly to meet my expectations...It listed the Devangari script "alphabet" which one is to memorize by listening the CD which goes too fast and doesn't repeat before launching into a "conversation" which one is to read and follow. The internet website I found, Livemocha, was great, and free, but I found it did not provide the breadth and depth of language learning I needed. I tried talking my husband into buying the Rosetta Stone Hindi program, but at $400 for the 3 CD's needed to learn conversational language, he refused...until his mom interveined - months later (after much delay) he gave in and bought the program.
I study every day for about an hour - the program covers listening, speaking (including pronunciation), reading, and even writing. I love it! It is nicely broken down with lots of repetition, visuals, matching tasks, testing (in all areas, including pronunciation of sounds/words), and internet support (for 3 months). I began learning not only letters and sounds, but words and sentences within two days of starting on the program. I am on lesson 4, (first CD) and can hold a conversation with a three year old at present about how many black dogs there are or who is reading the newspaper :) It's a start, but a promising one.
I am chatting online with my sister-in-law and reinforcing what I'm learning...and hope to one day have a real conversation with my wonderful, loving, caring mother-in-law (but not about how many black dogs are in the room :) I am also teaching our 8 month old some basic words in Hindi. In my opinion, the program was well worth the money...
In the meanwhile, I am preparing for the day I will travel to India to stay with my husband's parents for a while and give them precious time to get to know their grandson. I am learning Hindi.
I tried the "cheap" way, buying a book and CD's at the local bookstore and using the internet. The book failed horribly to meet my expectations...It listed the Devangari script "alphabet" which one is to memorize by listening the CD which goes too fast and doesn't repeat before launching into a "conversation" which one is to read and follow. The internet website I found, Livemocha, was great, and free, but I found it did not provide the breadth and depth of language learning I needed. I tried talking my husband into buying the Rosetta Stone Hindi program, but at $400 for the 3 CD's needed to learn conversational language, he refused...until his mom interveined - months later (after much delay) he gave in and bought the program.
I study every day for about an hour - the program covers listening, speaking (including pronunciation), reading, and even writing. I love it! It is nicely broken down with lots of repetition, visuals, matching tasks, testing (in all areas, including pronunciation of sounds/words), and internet support (for 3 months). I began learning not only letters and sounds, but words and sentences within two days of starting on the program. I am on lesson 4, (first CD) and can hold a conversation with a three year old at present about how many black dogs there are or who is reading the newspaper :) It's a start, but a promising one.
I am chatting online with my sister-in-law and reinforcing what I'm learning...and hope to one day have a real conversation with my wonderful, loving, caring mother-in-law (but not about how many black dogs are in the room :) I am also teaching our 8 month old some basic words in Hindi. In my opinion, the program was well worth the money...
A Little Background; East vs West Views on Love, and My Story...
In western cultures, we are pretty steadfast about our belief in the need for love within a marriage/relationship and for a marriage to be based almost soley on love. This stands against practicality and logic, as love often fails to stand the test of time (or at least, lust/attraction/infatuation). While some attraction is an obvious necessity for a happy marriage, it does not necessarily mark a long-lasting marriage. Thus we are pretty accepting about "divorce" and all its collateral damage when it happens to our friends and loved ones. It is something the individual and their children suffer, and we feel for them. We console them, and in time, we all move on. I won't go into our divorce rate and the impact divorce has on our children, because I feel it's common knowledge and the arguments for and against it have been pretty well covered by others throughout time.
Additionally, I find it pretty hard to find your soul-mate by "accident"...or by "chance", as we do in western cultures. We move a lot in this country, losing networks that may lead us to meeting our future husbands/wives. We lose touch with friends, family, and neighbors. We no longer sit on our front porches, saying hello to our neighbors-we rarely even know our neighbors anymore. We are not supposed to date our co-workers. There are often policies in place forbidding such behavior, and the fall-out if things go awry can be pretty difficult to deal with in the workplace.
In short, Americans believe in striking your own path in life, and learning from your successes and mistakes. The individual has the freedom of choice (career, marriage, finances), and thus carries the burden for making progress (business/school endeavors, marriage, etc), and for paying for our mistakes (divorce, failed financial choices, etc).
In India, however, almost EVERYTHING is approached from a practical viewpoint, with the family involved in almost all decisions. Marriage, therefore, is typically no exception to this. The parents of the bride and those of the groom really dig into the personal and financial histories of their child's potential mate and that of their family. They want their child to marry into a family of good reputation and solid financial standing. They also want to find a good match for their child, physically, mentally, and emotionally. They look at interests, education, and so forth to try to ensure that love will bloom within the marriage (as arranged marriages are set up with little or supervised-only contact between partners prior to marriage, love often comes later...though sometimes not at all).
Does this sound extreme? Does it sound a bit controlling? Think of it from this perspective; how often have you seen that the apple really doesn't fall far from the tree? The apple may insist it's a pear, not an apple, but really, when tested by time and challenged by life, the apple too often turns out to be...an apple. How often do we see people from dysfunctional families repeating their parents' mistakes despite a voiced, determined desire not to do so? As an extreme example, if your daughter came home with a man who works at a fast food joint and comes from a family who lives in a hotel and deals drugs, would you *honestly* (deep in your heart, not in the logically 'politically correct' part of your brain) want her to marry that man? Would you not think that he will, on some level, repeat what his parents brought him up with? Are there exceptions? Of course! Would I, as a parent, want to bet on the long shot for my child? No. This is how Indian parents typically view their role in arranging their child's marriage, though what is a "negative" to them is often something we westerners wouldn't even raise an eyebrow at. They know that youth and inexperience, combined with the heart's desire blotting out all logic, often leads to disaster. As divorce in India carries a huge burden for the individual, their children, and their family, Indian marriage is something to be approached from a very different perspective than American marriages. There is no '...the past is the past and we move on'...in India. The family name is tarnished permanantly, the divorce will affect the range of choices for marriage for the children of divorced parents, and those individuals with a past divorce will have fewer and typically less-desirable choices when remarrying. While this is not the case in the U.S., we tend to downplay the impact divorce has here on families, financially and otherwise, and so there is logic to the negative views toward divorce in general in India, even if it seems extreme to us, and logic in the family's involvment in choosing a partner for their child.
Speaking from personal experience, I went the 'American' route. I married a white American guy. We had a son. It turned out that the responsible, sweet, caring man I dated was none of the above after marriage and a pregnancy...we had serious issues and I felt I had no choice but to end the marriage, leaving when our son was just two months old. I did not remarry for nine years. The funny thing is, I felt "trapped" into the relationship as it began, and as the relationship progressed I was on my own. I come from a very loving, caring family, but they respected my right to make my own decisions. I was 21 and had no clue what a 'quality' partner was, who I was, or what I should be shooting for, and it cost me and my resulting child dearly. Looking back, I know there are no guarantees, but I wish my parents with their years of wisdom had been more involved from the start. So back to my nine years of single-hood....
For nine years, I did the single-mom thing; I went to college, got a bachelor's degree in Liberal Studies, and bought a house. While I enjoyed the freedom of independence, and the pride of accomplishing things on my own, everything was out of balance. My son hardly saw me, as I was working 16-hour days and weekends trying to keep up with a demanding teaching career. i left before the sun came up and came home after it went down. Getting laundry done was difficult, we ate almost every meal out, and meeting my son's teachers was next to impossible. In addition to work, I continued to work toward my Master's degree. I was exhausted and overwhelmed. During all of this craziness, the unexpected happened...I met and fell hard for a man who happened to be from India. I was inspired by the values of Indian culture, like never before, and the reason my sister chose her Indian husband (yes, there is a story there...elswhere in this blog) suddenly clicked for me: the emphasis on family, respecting family members, living practically,and being grounded in one's values. It struck a deep chord within me. Things did not work out however, as his family (of course) did not approve. After the dust settled, though, I had a clear picture of what I wanted in a husband, family, and future, and signed up for an Indian matrimonial website in hopes of meeting and marrying my future husband.
My philosophy was to find someone who was educated, well-grounded in who he was and what he was about, driven, family-oriented, and who shared so many of the qualities I admire in Indian culture. I found him on the internet, living in the same city, and the rest is...well...part of that complex tapestry woven throughout the entries in this blog. And so I travel on, off the beaten path...
Additionally, I find it pretty hard to find your soul-mate by "accident"...or by "chance", as we do in western cultures. We move a lot in this country, losing networks that may lead us to meeting our future husbands/wives. We lose touch with friends, family, and neighbors. We no longer sit on our front porches, saying hello to our neighbors-we rarely even know our neighbors anymore. We are not supposed to date our co-workers. There are often policies in place forbidding such behavior, and the fall-out if things go awry can be pretty difficult to deal with in the workplace.
In short, Americans believe in striking your own path in life, and learning from your successes and mistakes. The individual has the freedom of choice (career, marriage, finances), and thus carries the burden for making progress (business/school endeavors, marriage, etc), and for paying for our mistakes (divorce, failed financial choices, etc).
In India, however, almost EVERYTHING is approached from a practical viewpoint, with the family involved in almost all decisions. Marriage, therefore, is typically no exception to this. The parents of the bride and those of the groom really dig into the personal and financial histories of their child's potential mate and that of their family. They want their child to marry into a family of good reputation and solid financial standing. They also want to find a good match for their child, physically, mentally, and emotionally. They look at interests, education, and so forth to try to ensure that love will bloom within the marriage (as arranged marriages are set up with little or supervised-only contact between partners prior to marriage, love often comes later...though sometimes not at all).
Does this sound extreme? Does it sound a bit controlling? Think of it from this perspective; how often have you seen that the apple really doesn't fall far from the tree? The apple may insist it's a pear, not an apple, but really, when tested by time and challenged by life, the apple too often turns out to be...an apple. How often do we see people from dysfunctional families repeating their parents' mistakes despite a voiced, determined desire not to do so? As an extreme example, if your daughter came home with a man who works at a fast food joint and comes from a family who lives in a hotel and deals drugs, would you *honestly* (deep in your heart, not in the logically 'politically correct' part of your brain) want her to marry that man? Would you not think that he will, on some level, repeat what his parents brought him up with? Are there exceptions? Of course! Would I, as a parent, want to bet on the long shot for my child? No. This is how Indian parents typically view their role in arranging their child's marriage, though what is a "negative" to them is often something we westerners wouldn't even raise an eyebrow at. They know that youth and inexperience, combined with the heart's desire blotting out all logic, often leads to disaster. As divorce in India carries a huge burden for the individual, their children, and their family, Indian marriage is something to be approached from a very different perspective than American marriages. There is no '...the past is the past and we move on'...in India. The family name is tarnished permanantly, the divorce will affect the range of choices for marriage for the children of divorced parents, and those individuals with a past divorce will have fewer and typically less-desirable choices when remarrying. While this is not the case in the U.S., we tend to downplay the impact divorce has here on families, financially and otherwise, and so there is logic to the negative views toward divorce in general in India, even if it seems extreme to us, and logic in the family's involvment in choosing a partner for their child.
Speaking from personal experience, I went the 'American' route. I married a white American guy. We had a son. It turned out that the responsible, sweet, caring man I dated was none of the above after marriage and a pregnancy...we had serious issues and I felt I had no choice but to end the marriage, leaving when our son was just two months old. I did not remarry for nine years. The funny thing is, I felt "trapped" into the relationship as it began, and as the relationship progressed I was on my own. I come from a very loving, caring family, but they respected my right to make my own decisions. I was 21 and had no clue what a 'quality' partner was, who I was, or what I should be shooting for, and it cost me and my resulting child dearly. Looking back, I know there are no guarantees, but I wish my parents with their years of wisdom had been more involved from the start. So back to my nine years of single-hood....
For nine years, I did the single-mom thing; I went to college, got a bachelor's degree in Liberal Studies, and bought a house. While I enjoyed the freedom of independence, and the pride of accomplishing things on my own, everything was out of balance. My son hardly saw me, as I was working 16-hour days and weekends trying to keep up with a demanding teaching career. i left before the sun came up and came home after it went down. Getting laundry done was difficult, we ate almost every meal out, and meeting my son's teachers was next to impossible. In addition to work, I continued to work toward my Master's degree. I was exhausted and overwhelmed. During all of this craziness, the unexpected happened...I met and fell hard for a man who happened to be from India. I was inspired by the values of Indian culture, like never before, and the reason my sister chose her Indian husband (yes, there is a story there...elswhere in this blog) suddenly clicked for me: the emphasis on family, respecting family members, living practically,and being grounded in one's values. It struck a deep chord within me. Things did not work out however, as his family (of course) did not approve. After the dust settled, though, I had a clear picture of what I wanted in a husband, family, and future, and signed up for an Indian matrimonial website in hopes of meeting and marrying my future husband.
My philosophy was to find someone who was educated, well-grounded in who he was and what he was about, driven, family-oriented, and who shared so many of the qualities I admire in Indian culture. I found him on the internet, living in the same city, and the rest is...well...part of that complex tapestry woven throughout the entries in this blog. And so I travel on, off the beaten path...
About This Blog...
MASALA:
1. Noun - A mixture of spices used for Indian cooking
2. Adjective (Hinglish) - Spicy; Dramatic: It was a typical
masala film
(http://dictionary.reference.com)
The best masalas are those that *almost* burn your mouth, that keep you guessing what secret ingredients they contain in their complex mixes, and that leave you feeling like you really took a BITE of something. In other words, the sheer opposite of mashed potatoes.
Marriage to an East Indian man, in my experience, is like that. Sometimes somebody messes up and the masala goes beyond *almost* burning, other times it leaves me feeling like I'm living a life more "full". I would not call it easy, but eating mashed potatoes is easy, yet I would take a plate of tandoori chicken over mashed potatoes any day ;)
This blog is about my journey as an independent white American woman marrying an East Indian man, the challenges we face, and the discoveries along the way.
Often, when discussion of my choice of husband comes up with westerners, I am really surprised at how little "educated westerners" (here in multicultural California) know and understand about Asian cultures. I have been asked things such as, "Why would you want to marry an East Indian man? Do you know women aren't allowed to vote in India?", or "I would never feel safe taking my children to India. What if he doesn't let you bring them back?" (the latter I have heard in different forms from three different people).
Unfortunately, these misunderstandings rarely carry a positive connotation : > /
Indians, however, often have polarized misunderstandings about Americans. My husband encounters Indians who comment that Americans divorce as a hobby, that his marriage won't last, that his children will have loose morales and a lack of drive to succeed in life, and so forth. While I deal with judgement from Americans about my "boot-on-the-neck" homemaker situation (cooking, cleaning, caring for children, serving my husband dinner, and giving up a lot of financial freedom), my husband deals with judgements such as my lack of Hindi fluency, the fact we eat meat, the fact that I do not cook three separate Indian meals a day, and my multiple cultural bumbles that I can never seem to escape.
The road less travelled is a bumpy ride, folks, but it is a rich experience and leaves one stronger and more fullfilled having taken the journey. So I offer you to join me, if only vicariously, through what is written here ;)
1. Noun - A mixture of spices used for Indian cooking
2. Adjective (Hinglish) - Spicy; Dramatic: It was a typical
masala film
(http://dictionary.reference.com)
The best masalas are those that *almost* burn your mouth, that keep you guessing what secret ingredients they contain in their complex mixes, and that leave you feeling like you really took a BITE of something. In other words, the sheer opposite of mashed potatoes.
Marriage to an East Indian man, in my experience, is like that. Sometimes somebody messes up and the masala goes beyond *almost* burning, other times it leaves me feeling like I'm living a life more "full". I would not call it easy, but eating mashed potatoes is easy, yet I would take a plate of tandoori chicken over mashed potatoes any day ;)
This blog is about my journey as an independent white American woman marrying an East Indian man, the challenges we face, and the discoveries along the way.
Often, when discussion of my choice of husband comes up with westerners, I am really surprised at how little "educated westerners" (here in multicultural California) know and understand about Asian cultures. I have been asked things such as, "Why would you want to marry an East Indian man? Do you know women aren't allowed to vote in India?", or "I would never feel safe taking my children to India. What if he doesn't let you bring them back?" (the latter I have heard in different forms from three different people).
Unfortunately, these misunderstandings rarely carry a positive connotation : > /
Indians, however, often have polarized misunderstandings about Americans. My husband encounters Indians who comment that Americans divorce as a hobby, that his marriage won't last, that his children will have loose morales and a lack of drive to succeed in life, and so forth. While I deal with judgement from Americans about my "boot-on-the-neck" homemaker situation (cooking, cleaning, caring for children, serving my husband dinner, and giving up a lot of financial freedom), my husband deals with judgements such as my lack of Hindi fluency, the fact we eat meat, the fact that I do not cook three separate Indian meals a day, and my multiple cultural bumbles that I can never seem to escape.
The road less travelled is a bumpy ride, folks, but it is a rich experience and leaves one stronger and more fullfilled having taken the journey. So I offer you to join me, if only vicariously, through what is written here ;)
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